In a culture that elevates marriage, sex, and romance as the ultimate goals, many of us are left feeling unfulfilled or sidelined. Have we unknowingly made idols out of good things? In this episode, Juli unpacks how our hearts can get entangled in false narratives—even within the Church.
Whether you’re married, single, or discipling others, you’re invited to surrender your desires and expectations to God and find contentment on the other side.
Prefer to listen? Listen to the full episode here.
Juli (00:00)
Hey friend, it’s Juli. If you are a regular here at Java with Juli, I know that means you care about seeing lives change through the hope and healing of Jesus. Boy, so many people feel stuck in shame or alone. Maybe you can relate to that because they haven’t been able to make sense of God and sexuality. Well at Authentic Intimacy, we want to come alongside them with biblically grounded resources like this podcast to help people reclaim God’s design for sexuality in their lives. But we cannot do this without you. So this month we are asking God to bring 200 new monthly donors to help us continue this work at Authentic Intimacy. And I want to ask you, would you become one of them? As a thank you, I want to send you a copy of my new book, Surrendered Sexuality. Just visit Authenticintimacy.com/give to become part of the work that God is doing through Java with Juli and Authentic Intimacy. Alright, let’s head to the Coffee Shop.
Juli
I think it was Tim Keller. I mean, he wrote a book called Counterfeit Gods that is all about this. But he essentially said, the human heart is an idol-making factory. We will make an idol out of anything. And I think what’s so tricky is when we make idols out of good things, but it’s a fine line of when that good thing begins to become a God-thing. Hey friend, welcome to Java with Juli. My name is Juli Slattery and this podcast is a production of Authentic Intimacy, which is a ministry helping you make sense of God and sexuality. Well, we’ve been in a series that is all around the topic of how do we surrender our sexuality as followers of Christ. And today we’re going to be talking about what it looks like to recognize and surrender idols, how singleness, sex, marriage, dating, romance, all of that is tied into idols that we might have, and that keeps us from surrendering. So that’s where we’re headed today. And joining me in this conversation is Pastor Joe Caruso. Pastor Joe is the executive pastor at Grace Church in Akron, Ohio. And Joe, thanks again for being with me.
Joe (02:13)
Yeah, it’s so good to be here. Juli, what you just said, man, this is going to poke the bear a little bit, push some buttons I think because at some point I think so many of us have put marriage and sex on a pedestal and it doesn’t belong there. And so the conversation I really think is for all of us. As a pastor, I feel like I’ve had a version of this conversation with so many different types of people, whether we’re married or single. Gosh, this is going to help us in maybe even challenge us quite a bit. I’m excited for it. This talk that we’re doing today really comes from your book Surrendered Sexuality, and that’s out this month, so check that out. But if you’ve missed the last few episodes, I would say go back and check those out too because you’ll get to hear Juli teach about these concepts at last year’s conference. And then last week we had an episode where she interviewed and had a kind of a Q&A with Jackie Hill Perry and Lawrence Koo about what it looks like to surrender same sex desires. So it’d be great context for this, but as I mentioned, this is really kind of coming from that new book. So if you haven’t picked up your copy, go out and grab Surrendered Sexuality wherever you get books. Get yours today. Alright, Juli, let’s dive in. What is an idol? Let’s just start there.
Juli (03:27)
Yeah. An idol is anything we place equal to or above God in terms of something that we need, something that we adore, we worship, we spend all of our time thinking about. I bet you have a great pastoral answer to what is an idol?
Joe (03:46)
Well, I think it’s a Tim Keller quote that said, you turn good things into God things. But I not only would have maybe some pastoral answers, I’m also thinking just as a person, all the things that tend to fight to be the idols in my life. And they can be anything that I think is the hard part. It’s not the golden statue that you placed in a shrine in your room. It’s not even necessarily the place that you would formally go and worship. It’s the things that we subconsciously worship. It’s the subconscious things that we put priority. If we’ve ever thought to ourselves, God, I’ll follow you, listen to you, obey you, do what you want, accept this or please don’t ask for at a minimum. Those things are begging to be idols in your life, if not already in that pedestals.
Juli (04:31)
Right. And boy, I think we all have idols. I think it was Tim Keller. I mean he wrote a book called Counterfeit Gods that is all about this. But he essentially said the human heart is an idol-making factory. We will make an idol out of anything,
Joe (04:46)
Out of anything.
Juli (04:46)
And I think what’s so tricky is when we make idols out of good things, but it’s a fine line of when that good thing begins to become a God-thing and becomes something that we need to really learn to surrender.
Joe (05:00)
I remember thinking about that. So I’m married and I have a daughter and thinking about how silly it would be to idolize certain things in my life over top of those relationships. So if something tragic happened and my house caught on fire, am I running and getting my favorite pair of shoes? Or am I running and making sure that I have my old pictures and things that are good? Or am I like my wife and daughter need safe passage out of this house? And relationally it’s like, oh, that makes all the sense in the world. Why would you ever prioritize shoes or a picture over the people? And guess what? God’s trying to get in front of us. Why would we ever prioritize anything over the source of our life? The source of what our soul deeply longs for it is him. He is the pinnacle, He is the best. And so yeah, anything we are idol-making factories that is for sure. And we need to focus on Him.
Juli (05:52)
And I think what you said there, Joe, why would we idolize anything over God? He’s our source. He is our life. We say that, but do we believe it? And the idols in our hearts really reveal what we think is a source of life or it’s God plus I must have this other relationship or thing or experience. So it’s really tricky.
Joe (06:17)
It really, really is. And honestly that’s where a lot of our sexual sin and even our sexual disappointments fall into this conversation. And then I like this phrase that you’ve used the “if only” idols, I don’t know, are you willing to share some of your if only idols that you’ve battled through or..?
Juli (06:36)
Yeah. Boy, I think they’re different in each season. When I think back of what I was like in my early twenties before I got married, it was, “if only I could date that guy” or “if only I could be as beautiful as this person and guys would see me or pay attention to me”, or “if only I could be successful”. And then when you get married, when I got married, you experience the cracks in marriage and my secret heart of hearts became “if only my husband would change this way”, or “if only we could experience this kind of love”, then “if only if we had a child” and on and on and on they go. So I think there’s always those “if onlys” and it is really in the course of life where one of those “if onlys” is withheld or begins to get threatened that I even recognize that it’s an idol.
Joe (07:36)
I agree that there are often so many. I was also thinking back to my late teens and early adulthood. I still to this day struggle with lots of different insecurities. And so a lot of them are rooted in if only I could get past this issue or if only God would’ve created me different or if only people would see past that or I was the person that to use this episode’s language, I made an idol out of trying to find a partner. I desperately wanted a girlfriend. I desperately wanted a wife. And then when I did find my now wife, I put her on a pedestal that was incredibly unfair to her. But then I started thinking, well if only she would, I had a lot of the stereotypical things I think that guys might have like, well, I did the dishes, I mowed the lawn, let’s get intimate tonight. And then if that didn’t happen naturally, that’s where all the “if onlys” would start to slip. Well, if only she would be a wife like God wants her to be. And I started putting that pressure on her, those “if onlys” can get us in trouble and make a mess of things real fast.
Juli (08:40)
Yeah, they really do. And I think many of us will find it absolutely impossible to surrender aspects of our sexuality if we don’t get honest about the “if onlys” and the people that I’ve walked with, that boy I see in real time where it’s like I don’t have the experience in marriage that I want and if I can’t have that, then I’m leaving this marriage or I have to have a relationship with somebody of the same sex because that’s who I’m attracted to. I have to have that or God needs to take this away from me, this desire and if only he would take it away. And so all of these things that play in real time of why we refuse to surrender to God because we’re holding onto that one thing that he won’t do for us or he won’t give to us or he won’t condone in our lives.
Joe (09:34)
What do we think it is that sex and marriage and that whole category of life is supposed to give us that they don’t deliver? I mean we’re looking to them for the source of something. What is that?
Juli (09:45)
Yeah, boy, it’s really a cultural thing that feeds this. I’m sure there’s other cultures that have had it as well, but not like we have it. In today’s day and age, sex and marriage and romance have become one of the most important things that you need to be fulfilled as a human being. In western culture, it’s dripped throughout novels, television shows, music. If somebody’s single, their family members are going to be like, are you dating anyone? You need to find somebody. It’s the constant message that you’re not a whole person if you’re not in a relationship and not just in a relationship, but you found quote, “your soulmate”, the person who’s supposed to be your other half and complete you. And so we’ve been taught and trained that that whole category of marriage, sex, romance is necessary for human flourishing, is the only way you’re ever going to be completely satisfied in life, the greatest love you could ever have. And all those three statements are biblically untrue. They actually go against what the scripture says, but because it’s so infiltrated in our culture, I don’t think we recognize that we believe lies around all these things.
Joe (11:02)
I think it’s even there in the super subtle ways too. These necklaces aren’t as popular as they once were. But I picture those heart necklaces where one person and a couple wore half the heart and the other person wore the other half of the heart because they complete each other. I can’t remember the movie, but Jerry Maguire. Yeah, yeah, Jerry Maguire, yeah, you complete me. And yeah, we just put that pressure on ourselves and each other and it’s totally permeated things. But here’s an interesting question. How do you think the Church has unintentionally kind of fed into that thinking?
Juli (11:32)
Yeah. I hope I don’t offend you as a pastor here.
Joe (11:34)
No, I’ll be fine.
Juli (11:35)
But I think the Church has totally bought into it. I think the Church has taught that same narrative, but they’ve just qualified it by you have to ask God to bring the person who completes you. But even the way we handle ministry by and large in the Western church, it’s around marriage and family and the messaging is God is going to bring you this person and it’s all about marriage. It really is. And it kind of beats that drum of God wants you to be complete and happy. And it takes maybe the narrative in Genesis where Adam was not okay being by himself and God made a suitable helpmate and that was within the context of marriage. But really what God is doing there in Genesis is far broader than marriage. It’s the diversity of male and female within the body of Christ. I think, and you can correct me if I’m wrong, but man, what I’ve seen over and over in the subtle messaging of the church is just reinforcing that cultural belief.
Joe (12:40)
No, I think you’re right. I think that it’s the norm for churches to do that. I think part of it is we tend to, as humans speak from our own experience. And at least in the Protestant culture, most pastors, most leaders would be married. I don’t know the stats, but it’s heavily in favor. And so we tend to use marriage illustrations and even the scripture would say marriage is an example of the relationship we have with God. So it becomes a natural way for us to talk about it. People would say that being a parent is a great way to express God’s love for us because now I understand unconditional love. And so we slip into those things. Well, I think what that does for people is if they’re in a broken marriage, if they’ve never been married, if they’re single, if they’re in a non-married, but living together family relationship, all that rhetoric says is I’m not complete. I messed this up. I must have to find marriage to find the fulfillment of what you’re talking about, even if it’s related to God. And so I do think sometimes we unintentionally over-elevate the importance of marriage.
Juli (13:42)
And I think also, and I want to say this with a grain of salt, but we can overemphasize happiness in marriage, all the workshops and sermons on how to have a happy marriage. The end goal of a Christian’s life is not to have a happy marriage. You were not married when you were born and you won’t be married when you die.
Juli
The end goal even in marriage is to prepare us for communion with God to help us become more Christ-like and understand his love. So there’s subtle twists in that. And I would say, Joe, these are things that I’ve learned over the last dozen years of ministry as I’ve been able to talk to single Christians, divorced Christians, but also writers and thinkers in this space of really challenging the Western church’s narrative on the importance of marriage and family. And I’m not saying that we should denigrate marriage, it’s very esteemed and holy, but we are kind of falling into that same mantra that this is what you need for human flourishing.
Joe (14:45)
I actually think that most people would have a better marriage experience if they could get ahold of what you’re talking about today.
Juli (14:54)
I agree
Joe (14:55)
That they would suddenly not have to depend upon their partner to fulfill all those needs. That’s so good. So what happens, Juli, when marriage or our sexual fulfillment or even having a family become those keys? What do we get out of whack? What gets messed up?
Juli (15:11)
So a number of things happen. Number one, we can have some low key animosity towards God talking to somebody who’s 28 or 35 and is like, I’m not married. Why didn’t God bring this person? And just anger towards that, we can start compromising our values and saying, what am I waiting for? I’m not married. God hasn’t brought someone. I might as well sleep around, just do what I want. Sometimes we compromise who we date or who we marry. We’re like, this is the best I can get. And we don’t really take seriously the commitment of yoking your life to another person. And then if there is marriage involved, if you are married, it becomes very much, I got married for this person to complete me, and I got married for this person to fulfill all my sexual needs. Therefore, they must. And if they don’t, I’m going to be frustrated. I’m going to be angry. I might consider leaving the marriage because we don’t have chemistry.
Juli (16:13)
They’re not fulfilling me. I can find somebody else who fulfills me more. And so it really does lead to a lot of frustration and also temptation related to sexual sin because we have to get that thing met in our current situation. It’s not being addressed the way we think it should.
Joe (16:30)
I almost hope some of our listeners pause and rewind and just listen to those last couple of minutes again and again and again because of some of that unintentional work that the Western Church tends to do, we almost can’t hear what you just said with a sober mind that because we’re like, okay, sure, my spouse shouldn’t be that person. And then maybe 10 minutes from now we’ll go interact with them as if they’re that person. And I hope they meet my needs, and I hope they do all the things, and they didn’t smile at me or they didn’t respond, and see, I’m disappointed. And it just creates this ongoing cycle. Now that becomes hopefully more and more obvious if you’re married, but how does this idolization of marriage impact or even hurt single Christians?
Juli (17:10)
Yeah, I think on a larger scale, you’ve hit on it a little bit, but single Christians don’t feel like they fit in church. I’ve talked to singles who actually won’t go to church because everybody’s sitting together as families or I feel alienated. It seems like you’re allowed to be single up to a certain age and then after that age, the church doesn’t know what to do with you. And you mentioned the majority of pastors are married. Why is that? I have a hard time even thinking of a pastor that I know who’s single.
Joe (17:43)
And ironically the couple that I can think of, it’s because they’re widowers.
Juli (17:47)
Yeah,
Joe (17:47)
Yeah. So you’re right, it’s uncommon.
Juli (17:49)
But Paul was single and he encouraged us to consider singleness as also a form of service to God and giving our lives to the Lord. I think it alienates people within church community. There’s a lot of loneliness. They don’t know where they belong. When we are alienated from the people of God, it really makes it much more difficult to walk with integrity. We tend to find our people outside of the family of God. There’s all sort of complications with this when you’re talking about people who might struggle somewhere in the LGBTQ experience, they would say my LGBT friends are a lot more of a community than anywhere I might belong in the church. I feel like there’s nothing for me, the only path people talk about is getting married, and that’s probably not going to happen to me. So I think there’s a lot of complications here, Joe, and a person’s relationship with God in finding healthy community and feeling like they’re part of the family of Christ.
Joe (18:50)
So if we’re not supposed to find that connection and intimacy in marriage, and like you said, for some, if they’re going to follow the Lord, they may very well never be married. Where are we supposed to find that intimacy that we long for? Where are we supposed to run after and say, that’s where I find connection and belonging?
Juli (19:09)
And I would say those who are married, you’re going to hit a wall, you’re going to hit a wall where you’re like, wow, I am lonelier now than I was before I was married and I’m really struggling. My needs aren’t being met. All of it. So those experiences are meant to remind us that we were made for God, and we were made for the family of God. So breaking that down, most Christians, and I would say that this was true of me of many years in my Christian walk, I really didn’t know God. I was a Christian. I followed God, but I really didn’t know what it was to have intimate communion with him, knowing him in such a way that the words that he spoke to me actually were meaningful instead of just nice theological thoughts. I think we have often in our churches, we’re not teaching what that actually looks like to develop that level of intimacy with the Lord. And then also recognizing that the most important relationships we have are the brother-sister relationships within the family of God that even if you’re married, like my husband is first my brother in Christ.
Juli
Then on top of that he’s my husband, but every relationship within the family of God, the central piece of it, the one that scripture talks about over and over and over again is how you relate and love one another as brother and sister in Christ. And I think that’s not just a personal kind of paradigm shift we need to make, but even a corporate paradigm shift within the church of how are we talking about the brother and sister communion within the fellowship of God, not just helping you with your marriages, but helping you with your friendships, and helping you with overcoming conflict within your church community and the person who offends you. And there’s so much more emphasis in the New Testament on those things than on marriage. So it’s that shift in thinking that our intimacy needs, our belonging needs are supposed to be met in those contexts. How many people in the Bible do we know their marital status? And even those that we know are married, God usually doesn’t talk about them as a husband or wife. Moses and Abraham, and we know they were married Peter, he’s the only disciple that we know is married and is because there was a reference to his mother-in-law. But they’re not seen as married people. They’re seen as individuals. And so I think it’s changing the emphasis that marriage is a great gift, but it’s not what makes us who we are.
Joe (21:53)
I loved how you’re couching that because I’ve had so many conversations with couples that they say they want, for instance, a godly marriage or whatever, but they lack some basic brother-sister of Christ behavior, even heartbeat. So the amount of couples that have said, do you want to have a godly relationship? Yes. Do you pray together? No. Do you wish that was more of a part of your relationship? And they’ll both nod. And I’m like, okay, now face each other and realize that you’re both nodding because right now you’re holding yourself back like, well, it’s going to be weird that this person who said they would give their life to the Lord and give their life to me also wants the same things. Why is this awkward? It’s because you’re misprioritizing the type of relationship that you have. And so I love that we can see each other as followers of Christ first. That’s really good. Now I have a dichotomous question. I might’ve made that word up, but I think you know what I mean. So in your book, we would teach a single Christian that they can live without sex, but once someone gets married, we start to talk about sex as if it’s a requirement for marital survival. So how does that work together, Juli?
Juli (23:06)
Yeah, I don’t think it should work together. I think that’s something I’ve learned to kind of call out because we do tell single Christians, you can survive without sex, use self-control. And then as soon as you get married, it’s like now all of a sudden you can have whatever you want, and your quote, “needs” are going to be fulfilled.
And I think it’s essential to distinguish the difference between a healthy sexual journey is an important part of marriage, but it’s not an individual need that I must get met. So there’s no context in scripture that says this is an absolute survival need. Both a married and single Christian have to learn to control their sexual urges, their body, and steward their sexuality based on love. For the single, it’s based on love for the people around them, not taking advantage of the people around them, but ultimately love for God. But for the married, it’s stewarding your sexuality in the light of love for your spouse,
Juli
Which may mean your spouse has trauma or difficulties with sexuality. And you are not to demand. You’re not to be like I married you, you have to do this for me. That’s not the love of Christ. For the person who might have lower desire, and isn’t interested in sex, love says that you are concerned about your spouse and what is fulfilling to them and what blesses them. And so you work on your sexual relationship. And so I think we’ve talked about this before on this podcast, but people will take one Corinthians seven which talks about the sexual duty of marriage. They take that out of context and they begin to demand or withhold from one another. And both of those are not consistent with the larger message of how God calls us to steward our sexuality within marriage.
Joe (25:01)
I was thinking of that passage as well, and some of the language there is so fascinating to me because it’s talking to the person who would be giving it, not to the person who would be demanding it. And so is there an admonition to like, Hey, you have a spouse. Your body is not your own. You should give yourself yes, but it does not tell the other spouse, Hey, their body’s not their own. Go get it. That’s not what the passage says.
And so how we as Ephesians five 20 ones is how we submit to one another out of a reverence for Christ. What is God doing in my spouse, this person? I say that I love this person. I say that I will give myself over to. We have to find ourselves looking at the whole of the person, not just demanding our own needs. So that’s really, really good. Juli, how do we combat idolatry? What’s a good antidote to these things that are always building themselves up inside of us?
Juli (25:59)
Yeah, I think first of all, asking God to reveal our idols. And boy is that a scary prayer. Sometimes he does it even if we don’t ask. But even if we have a little timid, God, I don’t want to have anything before you. Please be gracious, but show me. I think that’s the first thing. But then I think a very important antidote is contentment.
And Paul wrote in one of his letters, I love how he wrote it. He said, I’ve learned to be content in all things. And he goes on to talk about I know how to be content when I have a lot and I know how to be content when I’m hungry and I don’t have anything. And he talked about the sufficiency of Christ. I can do all things through Christ who gives me strength. And we so often quote that verse, but we quote it out of context. What Paul is saying is through Christ, I have learned to be satiated, okay, for lack of a better term, like joyful and peaceful in all circumstances.
Juli
And that’s not something Paul immediately had. He had to learn it. And so if God shows me an idol in my heart, something that I feel like must change for me to be peaceful and content, then I’m like, oh, wow, there’s a problem there. God, would you show me what it is to be okay when I’m having a good marriage season and when I’m having a hard marriage season? Would you show me how to be okay when my needs for affection and love are met and when they’re not being met? Would you show me the kind of relationship I need to have with you and in the community of God where I’m not going to be sunk if what I think I need, I don’t get? Again, that is a journey. It’s not something that we immediately have.
Joe (27:47)
Yeah, I think I need to go back and listen to that part over and over again. I think there’s so much wisdom there in kind of the full context of what Paul’s talking about. It’s not just he gives you strength because it’s also in him that you find it. So now with contentment, I feel like there’s also these really strong principles that we lean into with grief and lament, and they’re often tied to something that’s like, I’m no longer content. I’ve lost something. There’s now this hole in my life. What is the role of grief when it comes to this concept?
Juli (28:21)
Yeah, I think part of getting to contentment is grief. Let’s say you’re single and you’ve wanted to be married, and every time you are invited to another wedding it pierces your heart. Your friends are having babies. Part of getting to contentment is naming that loss like, God, I’m grieved. I always pictured myself married. I’m seeing my friends move on and I feel stuck, and let me pour out my lament to you. We see, I think a great example of that is Hannah, who desperately wanted a baby and she wasn’t content, and she brought that grief before the Lord and poured it out in such a raw way. And it’s not like God’s saying, “Hey, suck it up. Too bad.” We have a God who understands our grief in this world where we’re hurting.
And so this is not a simple thing of just be content. No, there’s anguish. There’s anguish for the person who’s married and married to somebody who is emotionally unavailable. And there’s a loss there of this is not how I pictured my life going. There’s a grief when you’re married to somebody who has betrayed you or who is struggling with pornography. It’s real. And so we’re told to pour our heart before the Lord, to lament, to grieve, to name it. And I think if we skip that step, we try to muster a contentment that isn’t authentic.
Joe (29:56)
I feel like what you’re saying is we can’t just put a mask on. That we have to be honest. And I think that’s part of what Paul’s saying in that Philippians four passage is I’ve learned the secret of contentment. I have found a strength, and it goes beyond just, I’m sucking it up buttercup, but truly I have given this over to the Lord, and he is satiating me, as you said before, he’s finally fulfilling me. That’s why I’m content. I’m finding that all in Christ. And so these other things, now he’s helping me navigate. He’s helping me to interpret. He’s helping me realize that I have other callings or other things to give my life to that he has in store for me. And so yeah, if you’re hearing contentment as just put on a smile and tell people you’re content, that’s not what God’s inviting you into.
Juli (30:42)
No. And I think part of contentment requires that we look beyond this world. There are griefs that aren’t going to be satisfied here on earth, and we talk very little about eternity, but eternity is essential for us to fix our hope in.
Joe (30:59)
Oh my goodness.
Juli (31:00)
That one day these wrongs will be righted. One day there’ll be no more tears. One day I won’t feel rejected and isolated, God, you are my portion here on earth, but ultimately I’m not going to be whole till I see you face to face. And we see that echoed in Paul as well, that he was fixated not on fixing everything here, but on the sacrifices and what they would lead to in eternity.
Joe (31:31)
Yeah. He said in that same book, he said, I want to know the power of the Lord and his sufferings, that even when I suffer, even when I’m grieving, even when I’m lamenting, even when things aren’t going right, situationally, I find a power and a contentment knowing that I’m with my Lord because he trusted in it that much. And so it’s powerful. Now, all of this, Juli assumes, at least on some level, a connection, a relationship with Christ. And so how does surrendering our idols and then knowing Jesus go hand in hand?
Juli (32:05)
Yeah. So Jesus is, he’s the only antidote. He’s the thing that we’re really hungering for. And until we have him, we’re going to look for cheap replacements. And I think what’s so hard, Joe, is that much of our religious experience, sometimes it’s just another cheap replacement. And this is why Jesus was so hard on the religious leaders of the day and the religious systems of the day, and why he says, if the light that you have is really darkness, how great a darkness that is. And my heart behind this book, and really the work God has called me to do is not to get people to fix up their sexuality, but to recognize through the channels of sexuality how desperately we need a real encounter with God and a true relationship that is life giving and isn’t just a set of rules or an organization we belong to, but that tangible where we’re going to God every day with our laments, with our joys, with our cries for help, and we’re receiving our portion in him.
Joe (33:15)
I mean, it’s actually making me slightly emotional because I just think of what he brings to the table. And when I think about my story throughout this conversation that we’ve just had here and the things I’ve had idols in, and the if only idols and the times that I have been unsatisfied because I’m not running to Jesus and to one day, well, first of all, for more and more of that to be washed out of me, which I have experienced, but to one day know that he will cleanse me from all of my insecurities and all of my he’ll satisfy my longings and he’ll be able to wash away my sinful desires. I mean, that starts to give me such a deeper longing of what Jesus brings to the table and a more pure hope of what eventually my eternal experience will be, and really honestly, a more sobering perspective on what it means to struggle with the things I struggle with here on this earth.
Juli (34:12)
Yeah. Thank you for sharing that.
Joe (34:14)
Yeah.
Juli (34:15)
Yeah. I think we’ve been referencing things that Paul wrote a lot because he’s so honest about his journey of this. But one of the things that comes to mind is when he writes all these things about myself that I used to put stock in have become rubbish to me. And he said, because I’m comparing them to knowing Christ.
Not knowing religion or following God, knowing Christ Jesus. And I think as you’ve walked the road of Christianity for a while, you can probably look back on something that was really important to you 10 or 15 years ago, and you’re like, I don’t care about that anymore. God has met me in that place, but there’s new idols. And so it’s again, that progressive journey of a deeper and deeper relationship with Christ, so that the things that we once had to clinging to that relationship, that drive, that need, we’re able to let go of and then even look back and say, that was rubbish compared to what I have now.
Joe (35:16)
Yeah. Jesus compares it to the person who finds the great treasure in the field, that you find the kingdom of God, you find this life with him, you find this status, this relationship with God, and you’ll give up everything for it. And I think that that’s one of the competitions that we can wrestle with. We think that whatever we idolize is amazing. That’s why we idolize it. And if we’re not careful, we start to undersell what Jesus brings to the table. And so it feels like a sacrifice as opposed to a no-brainer. And when we really start to see the miracle of what Jesus wants to do in our life, and we really start to see what he brings to the table, and we really see the transformation and the satisfaction that he offers, I’ll throw everything away for a chance at being connected with Christ that way. So that’s really, really helpful.
Juli (36:03)
Well, it starts with that sacrifice. And as you’re listening, there might be something in your life that you’re like, yeah, I’m clinging to this. God has told me to cut this out of my life or not pursue this relationship or change my view of my spouse and marriage. And right now it feels like a sacrifice. And God calls us like, if you’re going to follow me, deny yourself and take up your cross daily. But as we’ve been talking, that sacrifice is not just so you can have a miserable life. It’s actually so that you can experience more of the fullness of Christ. And that’s my hope and prayer for you as we’re wrapping up this conversation and really throughout this whole series that you begin to experience surrender, not as something you have to give up, but as a richer, fuller experience with God that you get to actually walk into. And I just want to thank you for being with us today for this discussion around the book Surrender Sexuality. We hope you pick up a copy if you don’t already have one, and we look forward to having more conversation with you next time on Java with Juli.